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Posted Thursday, September 30, 2004

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George Mason University, USA

Should Respectable Historians Attend and Speak at Conferences Hosted by David Irving?

Re: Did Lipstadt treat Irving unfairly before the trial? Who cares? (#43245)

by Sara D. Salzman on September 30, 2004 at 8:47 AM

Sara SalzmanFRANKLY, I don't care what Lipstadt did or didn't do -- in regards to the subject of this thread. You are now arguing the validity of Lipstadt's work, the validity of the trial -- which Irving instigated and lost -- but not the central issue.

Every time you bring up the "painstaking research" that Irving did, I ask you again:

1. Since you have no access to the original sources, how do you know that what Irving says is true? How do you know that his "painstaking research" did not reveal exactly the OPPOSITE of what he claims? When he translates a document and replaces the words "the SS" with "the Jews," what kind of "research" is that?

2. Since a great deal of Irving's "painstaking research" involves interviews with former Nazis, yet Irving claims that all witnesses to the Holocaust who disagree with him are liars, why is Irving's quoted eyewitness testimony valid?

Let's get back to Irving's "Real History" conference. Have you any idea what kinds of speakers Irving attracts? Have you any idea what kinds of "real" history is discussed there?

click for origin

David Irving comments:

A FEW misconceptions should be clarified.
   Mr Justice Gray, in his otherwise unfavourable judgment at the end of my libel action against Deborah Lipstadt, specifically found that she had libelled me by alleging in her turgid and odious book Denying the Holocaust that I consorted with known terrorist groups including the Hamas and Hizbollah. (Gray J also said that her allegation that I permanently removed plates from the Moscow archives was a libel).
   It is to be hoped that Ms Salzman will repeat her fat lies within the jurisdiction of the UK courts, rather than in the safety of the Internet. Unlike Lipstadt she will not be able to take cowardly refuge in Section 5 of the UK Defamation Act.
   True, I did mistranscribe (not "translate") one or two words when exploiting the handwritten telephone notes of Heinrich Himmler. One such misreading was "Juden" instead of "haben" - in Gothic script on a very faint Xerox copy they look identical. [see document]. I have corrected that minor transcription error long ago of course -- long before the Lipstadt trial, where she adduced it as a major example of my manipulating and distorting history.
   I am this week in fact facing the same problems, transcribing Himmler's early letters and diaries at the Hoover Institution archives. So Lipstadt, Salzman et al may well shortly have fresh opportunities to accuse me of manipulation and distortion. That is one of the risks of being among the first to use archival sources.

Handwritten note: Heinrich Himmler speaks on the phone with Heydrich about executions of Jews in Riga, Dec 1, 1941: "Haben zu bleiben," bottom right, third line up.

A note on the resulting controversy in the Lipstadt trial.

In this connection read and enjoy the Trial Transcript of Days 1, 3, 22, and 23.

David Irving, in addition, is a British citizen who earns money in the United States, pays no taxes, and boasts that he will not pay the judgment he LOST to Prof. Lipstadt. He associates with some very shady characters -- from the National Alliance to Middle East terror groups -- and has supported other "sloppy" research, most specifically the completely discredited Leuchter Report. He admits to removing documents and glass plates from archives. He deliberately mistranslates German documents to change their meaning. These are not "misinterpretations," they are deliberate falsehoods. The fact that no one went through and checked as closely as Evans [Professor Richard J "Skunky" Evans, of Cambridge University] did is an indictment of the whole process, but Irving brought that upon himself by filing the suit.

So should historians who value their reputations associate with such a man?

Does he have a right to publish his drivel and lies? Absolutely. The same right that the rest of us have to debunk him, and to call attention to his mendacious actions. Irving's hypocritical methods of insisting on his own "free speech" rights while threatening those who disagree with him are typical of his arrogant methods.

Finally, David Irving, "historian," has stated that "Hitler was the best friend the Jews ever had." I post that without comment.

Sara Salzman (Ms.)

Ms Salzman Should be Condemned for Professional Misconduct (#43249)

by Peter N. Kirstein on September 30, 2004 at 9:07 AM

Dear Ms. Salzman,

KirsteinYOU claimed of Mr Irving: "He associates with some very shady characters -- from the National Alliance to Middle East terror groups." I ask you to indicate and reveal your evidence that Mr Irving is a terrorist or associates with known terrorists from the Middle East. What are your sources and what is your proof? Which groups are your referring to? What is the nature of the association? When did they take place? I think such vicious and unprofessional statements are the result of the sustained and energized argumentation of Mr Williams that until now elevated this thread into a spirited exchange over Mr Irving.

I believe Ms. Salzman's statement is an affront to HNN readers and undermines any pretense of objectivity and balance. You should apologize for your statement if you can't support it.

Peter N. Kirstein
Professor of History
Saint Xavier University


... on this website


Hitler authorises Himmler to sell off Jews for foreign currency
Heinrich Himmler orders Heydrich "no liquidation" of Berlin trainload of Jews, Nov 30, 1941
Heinrich Himmler speaks on phone with Heydrich about executions of Jews in Riga, Dec 1, 1941

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