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Tuesday, May 3, 2005
Hussein refuses to sell out Iraq
Magazine publishes transcript of [alleged]
meeting in prison between Saddam Hussein and Donald
Translated by Muhammad Abu
magazineal-Usbu'on Monday, May 2, 2005,
published what it said was the text of a
conversation between Iraqi PresidentSaddam
Husseinand US Defense SecretaryDonald
Rumsfeldon his latest trip to Baghdad during
which he visited the imprisoned Iraqi leader.
Al-Usbu' reports that informed political sources
had disclosed the details of the
Al-Usbu'reports that the meeting took place
after an escalation of Iraqi Resistance attacks
against US occupation forces and their allies and
stooges in Iraq. The sources indicated that the US
had lost more than 1,600 men killed and wounded in
the last three months, only a fraction of which
they officially admitted. The available information
indicates that US PresidentGeorge W.
Bushheld a meeting with his staff in which they
discussed ways to stop the Resistance violence in
Iraq. In order to save us lives and stop the
continued deterioration of relations between the US
and its allies and other countries that sent forces
to occupied Iraq. The US leadership arrived at a
decision to offer to release the Iraqi President
Saddam Hussein and take him to his preferred place
of exile outside Iraq in return for his appearing
on television to demand that the Iraqi Resistance
halt its armed operations and form a political
party to take part in the political process set up
by the US occupation forces in Iraq.
WE reproduce this item
without any guarantees whatever to the
veracity of its claim, and with certain
This is however
what the Internet is famous and prized for
-- sheer irresponsibility, transcending
the laws of libel and probability, andmore
than once actually forcing a breach in an
official wall of secrecy surrounding some
action or other.
On the one hand: the
"transcript" seems calculated and even
designed to showSaddam Husseinin
the posture of a hero to his own people
and it contains theatrical directions
(e.g., "mockingly") that such transcripts
do not normally contain; on the other
hand, Saddam and Rumsfeld have met before,
andAriel Sharonis known to have had
an audience of the imprisoned Saddam.
With the apparently
unstoppable growth of the patriotic Iraqi
resistance movement, Saddam may well have
a lot of trumps in his hand, even while he
languishes as a prisoner of the
"Coaliation". But are they powerful enough
to force Donald Rumseld to swallow his
pride and eat crow instead (or humble-pie,
as we have it in England).
A sustained guerrilla
war against the American occupation forces
is however what Saddam Hussein shrewdly
planned all along, and the Coalition must
recognise that he holds the key to
stopping it, as easily it
Bush entrusted his Secretary of State, Donald
Rumsfeld, with the task of going to Iraq
immediately to urge the quick formation of a new
Iraqi puppet "government" and to meet with the
Iraqi "leaders" who have emerged from the 30
January "election" results held under the threat of
US weapons in occupied Iraq. At the same
time,however, Rumsfeld was to meet with Iraqi
President Saddam Hussein in his American prison
near Saddam International Airport west of
The Saddam Hussein-Rumsfeld meeting reportedly
lasted nearly an hour and took place in the
presence of the commander of US occupation forces
in Iraq. Rumsfeld followed up on his meeting by
sending a report to President Bush in which he
enclosed minutes of his meeting with the Iraqi
President and offered outlines for how the US
should deal with future developments in Iraq. He is
said to have stressed the need for pursuing various
ways to hold political dialogue with the Resistance
and with Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.
In his report,al-Usbu'said, Rumsfeld
emphasized that the situation in Iraq was
increasingly dangerous. He said that the Arab
Resistance looked like an organized army in the
making and that it was training well and had been
provided with important support in weapons and
other material back up. Rumsfeld said that the
number of Resistance fighters in Iraq had now
reached 400,000 active fighters and that around
them were more than five million people providing
the Resistance with support.
Rumsfeld said that what took place in
al-Fallujah had a negative impact on the security
situation and that the Resistnace had succeeded in
reaping the fruits of the "war on terror"
beingwaged by the united states to use them for its
benefit. He said that Iraqi youths were now vying
with one another in volunteering to fight in the
ranks of the Resistance.
Rumsfeld confirmed that the names of many of the
Resistance organizations that declare themselves
here and there are nothing but fronts for
organizations of the Arab Baath Party under the
leadership currently ofIzzat Ibrahim
ad-Duri, the Vice President of Iraq.
Rumsfeld expressed the expectation that the
situation would become much more difficult in the
coming period since the pace of armed operations
against the US forces had greatly accelerated, and
now stands at more than 200 attacks every day,
making dozens ofcasualties in the "coalition"and
puppet "national guard" ranks likely.
Rumsfeld said that he had reviewed numerous
American and Iraqi reports that reveal a
deterioration in the security situation in Iraq and
a fall in the morale level of the troops as
casualties and material losses increase.
Rumsfeld indicated that there have also been
serious material losses in US ranks, and that the
Americans are now loosing an average of at least 30
military vehicles every week, something that is
continually depleting American power.
Rumsfeld also disclosed that the Resistance had
just recently seized stockpiles of advanced
American weaponry including artillery and rocket
launchers as well as anti-aircraft launchers and
that the US command expressed the fear that these
arms would soon have their effect in escalating the
movements of violence and Resistance
At the end of his report, al-Usbu' reports,
Rumsfeld urged the continuation of the dialogue
with Saddam Hussein and his supporters until they
can arrive at a formula for bringing about a
temporary truce to facilitate a discussion of both
Al-Usbu' obtained the minutes of the
conversation between Saddam Hussein and Donald
Rumsfeld from a reliable American source.
The following are the minutes of the
of the meeting between President Saddam Hussein and
US Secretary of Defense Donald
AT the beginning of the meeting President Saddam
appeared extremely calm, perhaps he was surprised
that his visitor was Rumsfeld, but he did not show
any nervous tension. Rumsfeld began the
Rumsfeld: I have come to meet you to talk with
out about the situation in Iraq. We have been in
communication with some of your supporters inside
and outside Iraq and they advised us to listen to
Saddam Hussein: And what is it that you want?
Your forces have occupied the territory of noble
Iraq; you brought down the ruling regime without
any legal basis; you attacked the sovereignty of an
independent, free, sovereign country; and you
committed crimes that history will record
astestimony against your bloodstained civilization.
So what more do you want after all that?
Rumsfeld (trying to conceal his anger): there no
call for going into the past. I've come specially
to present you a clear and specific offer and I
want to hear from you a clear and specific
Saddam Hussein (mockingly): I suppose you've
come to apologize and return authority to the
Rumsfeld: We have nothing to apologize for. You
were a danger to your neighbors. You were trying to
acquire weapons of mass destruction, and you
practiced dictatorship over your people. So it was
natural for us to extend our hands to help the
people of Iraq to rid themselves ofthe perils they
faced for more than thirty years.
Saddam Hussein: I know that you're ignorant of
history and I know that your president is no less
ignorant. But it seems that you've been telling
lies for so long that you have come to believe them
yourselves. If you mean by "our neighbors" the
Zionist Entity, then, yes, we really were posing a
danger to it and preparing to liberate our
plundered land in Palestine. This is the trust of
every Arab person, not just Iraqis, for that land
is Arab and its people are Arab and the Zionists
have done nothing but occupy the land. They came to
us from every corner of the world with your help
and that of the old colonial powers. But if you
mean Kuwait, I would like to ask you: Haveyou
withdrawn from Kuwait or not?
Rumsfeld: These are security issues. Besides,
between us and Kuwait and the other Gulf States
there are security agreements.We came in based on
their request to defend them from your threats.
Saddam Hussein: Isn't it funny to entrust the
wolf to guard the sheep? The Kuwaiti people are an
Arab people, and Kuwait is Iraqi territory. So I
would ask you to go and read up on history well,
except that I am sure that you will never be able
to grasp it.
Rumsfeld: Enough of this chatter. I am offering
you . . .
Saddam Hussein (cuts him off): Before you offer
me your rotten goods, I want to ask you: did you
find any weapons of mass destruction or not?
Rumsfeld (confused): we haven't found any so
far. But we definitely will find them one day. Do
you deny that you had the intention of making a
Saddam Hussein: We had no weapons of mass
destruction since 1991. We were truthful when we
spoke to the International Inspection Team and we
were truthful in our letters toKofi Annan.
And you knew those facts, but you were looking for
any false excuse to occupy Iraq and overthrow the
Rumsfeld: The Iraqis greeted us happily and
welcomed us and the reason was the bloody practices
of your regime for all the years in which you ruled
Saddam Hussein: I ask you, Mr. Rumsfeld . . .
Enough lying. You are the ones who opened up
cascades of blood on the land of Iraq. You plotted
against us and you came with some traitors to take
over rule of the great land of Iraq.
Rumsfeld: The ones you call traitors were chosen
as their leaders by the Iraqi people by democratic
means and clean elections, such as never took place
while you ruled the country.
Saddam Hussein: I knew that you came with a band
of traitors with[Jalal]
at-Talibaniin their front ranks (laughs
mockingly). Great Iraq being ruled by at-Talibani
andal-Ja'fari, isn't that ridiculous? And
what kind of elections are you talking about. Is it
possible to hold free elections, as you call them,
when our country is occupied? Mr. Rumsfeld, we have
learned from history that occupiers come only with
their lackeys and agents, then you want after all
that to convince me that the people of Iraq are
enjoying freedom and democracy? You must really be
Rumsfeld (trying very hard to control his
anger): You are in isolation and don't know the
facts of what is going on outside. The Iraqi people
have been freed from your oppression. If they saw
you or any of you men in the street, they would
Saddam Hussein: And I bet you that if you were
able to announce where you are in Iraq, if the
Iraqi Resistance learned where you were, you
wouldn't be able to get out alive. I want to pass
on some advice that you must convey to your stupid
president: you must tell him to save what remains
of his troops. Death is stalking them in every
place and historywill not forgive him.
Rumsfeld: I came to talk with you about the
'terrorist' operations that your men are inciting
and carrying out. Your men recently carried out a
foul attack against Abu Ghurayb prison where more
than 50 Americans were killed or wounded, and they
killed a number of those in custody on various
charges as well. Your men are getting help from
terrorists from every corner of the world and they
are threatening the democratic experiment in
Saddam Hussein: What exactly is it that you
Rumsfeld: I'm making you one offer and that is
that you will be released and can chose for
yourself a place of exile freely, in any country
you like, on condition that you go on television
and issue a condemnation of terrorism and order
your men to stop these acts.
Saddam Hussein: Have you obtained the agreement
of your president to this offer?
Rumsfeld: Yes, this offer has been agreed on in
a meeting in which the President, Vice President,
Secretary of State, and Chief of Intelligence took
part. AndI have been authorized to inform you of
Saddam Hussein: It's a trifling offer.
Rumsfeld (with a sigh): We're also ready to
bring elements close to you into the
Saddam Hussein: And what else?
Rumsfeld: You will be given generous financial
assistance and security protection for you and your
family in the country of your choice.
Saddam Hussein: Do you want to hear my
Rumsfeld: I would love to.
Saddam Hussein (with an air of superciliousness
and superiority) I want first from you that you set
a time table for your withdrawal from Iraq and that
your government commit itself to it before the
world and that you begin the withdrawal
Secondly, I ask you to release
immediately all the Iraqi and Arab prisoners in
the prisons you have set up or in which you have
taken the freedom of tens of thousands of
honorable people of Iraq.
Thirdly, I ask from you to pledge to grant
full compensation for the material losses that
afflicted the Iraqi people as a result of your
aggression against our country since the Mother
of Battles in 1991 and until today. And I accept
the assistance of an Arab and International
Committee in estimating the extent of those
Fourth, I ask that you return the money that
you and your men plundered from the treasuries
of Iraq, and its oil, in particular that
criminal[L. Paul] Bremerand his
gang of traitors and renegades.
Fifth, the return of the artifacts that you
stole and gave to the archaeological artifact
mafia. These are treasures that are beyond all
the monetary value in the world, because they
carry the history of Iraq and its civilization.
It's true that you don't have any civilization
or history and that the lifespan of your country
is no more than a few hundred years, but all
that must not serve to justify your theft and
your hatred for the civilization of Iraq and the
wealth of Iraq.
And sixth, you must hand over the weapons of
mass destruction if you have found any and
return to us the lives of all the martyrs whose
lives you took and to return the honor of the
noble women of Iraq whom you dishonored.
Rumsfeld: Is this some kind of joke?
Saddam Hussein: No! This is the bitter reality.
. . which you know, Mr. Rumsfeld. You have
committed the greatest crime in history against a
peaceful Arab country. We met together in the
1980s. Do you remember your offers?
Rumsfeld: Enough of the past. We are reassessing
our positions towards you and towards a number of
powers that have been hostile to us in the past. We
have decided to hold dialogue with moderate
Islamicists and we have no objection to their
coming to power through the ballot box. More
important than that we have decided to open
channels for dialogue with 'terrorist'
organizations like Hamas, the Islamic Jihad, and
Hizbollah, which is pro-Iranian, and also with
other fundamentalist organizations in the whole
world. We even have a plan for contacting the
Taliban movement in Afghanistan to study the
possibility of their participation in power, in
exchange for their giving up arms.
Saddam Hussein: So you have begun to rethink
your erroneous course?
Rumsfeld: It is a natural development of events.
We are striving to spread democracy in all
countries and movements subject to tyranny.
Saddam Hussein: May you prosper if you are
truthful. I know your real aim, though. If you were
really truthful, then you and your allies must
begin immediately by withdrawing from Iraq. And you
would also have to depart from your position of
support for 'Israel'. But I know that your
president is stubborn and arrogant and is not
telling the truth.
Rumsfeld: He is a democratically elected
president, not a bloody ruler like you.
SaddamHussein: Terror is your product and lying
is your method.
Rumsfeld: This offer is a historic opportunity
for you. You will be released and we will consult
with you in everything related to the running of
Iraq. If you refuse this offer, the opportunity
will not be fulfilled.
Saddam Hussein: I am not looking for
opportunities. I am not looking for a way to save
my neck from the gallows that you have set up for
all of Iraq. If I wanted that I would have accepted
the Russian offer and saved my sons and grandson
from martyrdom. I don't know what has become ofmy
family and my daughters and grandchildren. But
believe me I am concerned with every Iraqi citizen
and the future of great Iraq more than I am
concerned with myself and my family.
Through your men, you previously made an offer
that if I declare that weapons of mass destruction
were smuggled to Syria, you said that in return you
would release me. I rejected that then and I reject
it again now.
Rumsfeld: I don't want a rejection from you. I
want you to think about it. We are continuing our
reassessment of our stances at the present time. We
want to stop the bloodshed on both sides. And
therefore we have made this offer out of the logic
of power and not the logic of weakness.
We asked Jalal at-Talibani to make a statement
denying any intention of executing you as a sign of
good intentions on our part. We are ready to
reassess our whole position on the political
arrangement in Iraq as a whole and to discuss this
matter with you and with your men.
Saddam Hussein: Are you ready to withdraw or
Rumsfeld: We can possibly discuss redeployment.
Our forces have prepared bases for a long stay. We
can possibly withdraw from streets and cities, but
we will remain in the bases for some time.
Saddam Hussein: then you want a new stooge to
add to that line of stooges. No Mr. Rumsfeld. Don't
forget that you are talking with Saddam Hussein the
President of the Republic of Iraq.
Rumsfeld: But you lost power.
Saddam Hussein: I have nothing left but honor
and honor cannot be bought and sold.
Rumsfeld: But life is priceless.
Saddam Hussein: There is no value to life
without honor. You robbed Iraq of its honor when
you trampled on its land and we will regain our
honor whether Saddam Hussein remains or dies a
Rumsfeld: Your supporters with whom we have been
discussing told us that you were the first and last
decision maker. Were they expecting this reaction
Saddam Hussein: Definitely, they know that
Saddam Hussein cannot back away at the expense of
his homeland and honor.
Rumsfeld: History will hold you responsible for
the blood that is being shed in Iraq.
Saddam Hussein: Rather history will judge you
for your crimes. I warned you before, saying that
you would commit suicide on the walls of Baghdad.
And here you are paying the price. I want you to go
to London and read the records of the British
Foreign Office and learn something aboutthe
struggle of the Iraqi people against your British
friends who are now repeating their mistakes and
fighting with you. The Iraqi people are a stubborn
people who do not fear death. The Resistance is
stronger than you imagine. So I promise you that
you will have even more.